As a result, the case will occasionally simply sort of drop off the extractor and settle on top of the magazine, creating an ejecting difficulty. With regard to ergonomics, the Ruger American is inferior. I saw this feature on some YT video and my EC9s behaves the same way.Remedy is simple push the pin back with a thin object.Prevention is also simple carry weapon with safety on or do not press the trigger repeatedly without shooting. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I called ruger and customer service lady says "oh you need to shoot it " I told her the extractor doesn't move easily and will not close over the case but it didn't change her mind. Don't know if they'll do you a freebie, but they'll fix it or replace the bolt for you (if it can't be fixed) I'm sure. Snapped band off that holds extractor lift out extractor broke 3/8 inch of flat (small end) toothpick, placed under back end extractor, replaced band. [LAST STAND AT SABER RIVER] Confederate veteran to his wife. Home Gun Parts Jimenez Arms; Marlin / Glenfield; Mossberg; North American Arms; Remington; . Good, high quality brass from Federal gets 'stuck' several times, and required a fair amount of coaxing to pull out of the chamber. It sure did solve my problem, but it seems like it is (new extractor) eating away part of the breach where it lives Hi. It is difficult to pivot the extractor and it barely moves to begin with. I didn't have any problems until using cheaper imported 22lr recently. I had posted in another thread about my issues with my .308 American, and I figured I would start a new thread for it. Just make sure you have it securely caught. . The Ruger American Predator Rifle is a low end hunting rifle which you may like it flush but that isnt super accurate. The clip bottoms against two tiny tabs on the stocks top that serve as a stop. Location: la Republika Popular de Kalifornistan. It happened about 3 times. People new to shooting the Ruger EC9s often report the slide lock engaging when the magazine is not yet empty. I am a new member,and I am from far away north - Finland. Recoil and follow through will be clumsy if you dont have a tight enough grip and your stance doesnt give adequate support. Testing the Ruger American Standard rifle for accuracy with two Federal loads, chambered in .308 on my range in Tucson. Your mags may not be inserted completely, which would prevent the locking button from latching on the locking nub on the magazine body. It is a single-stack, striker-fired polymer handgun with a grip that is so aggressively textured that you can hold on even with wet or sweaty palms. But, it is a problem that can be solved even without sending it to Ruger for fixing. There is no reason that these issues should scare you away from picking up a Ruger EC9s. Epoxying the tab that contacts the stock. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Available in blued or silver, in heights from extra-low to extra-high, in both one-inch diameter and 30mm, for both long and short action. In the compact daily carry 9mm pistol arena, few weapons have a solid mix of performance and reliability than the Ruger EC9s. Premature wear: Ruger American slides may break owing to premature wear of the locking surfaces between the slide and. Aside from that, you shouldnt be concerned because additional problems only occur in uncommon cases. Your email address will not be published. In many cases, this can be solved by simply firing the gun and getting used to how much more firmly it needs to be held over a conventional steel frame gun. JavaScript is disabled. Well Ruger got the parts to me today, after a little effort got the new extractor installed and everything is working just fine. Third problem is the claw of the extractor. Then release the pressure on the plunger and check to see that the extractor is fitting flush. Work sheet said: "Replaced the extractor, extractor spring & extractor ball bearing." Not sure why they did that, extraction wasn't a problem as I couldn't get a round to fully chamber. The second rifle had a Burr at the throat preventing extraction. There are several possible explanations for this: Cleaning filth is a normal practice that should be done out with every handgun, thus fixing issues often doesnt cost too much. There could to two possibilities that might land you in this situation. Growing up, John loved learning about the components of firearms and what makes them work, which still intrigues him to this day. Its a full-size sidearm that may be used for duty or open carry. The Ruger LCP is known to have extractor problems, which can cause misfires and jams. With some breaking in, and some more work in determining which cartridge it likes best, it's likely to be a sub MOA shooter. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983281&highlight=17+hmr+ruger+extractor, Scopes, Sights, Rings, Mounts & Other Optics, Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Most of your difficulties will arise during this period. I wouldn't put heat on it. I don't have a Ruger American either but on my other guns with ejectors like that the ejector should be out when the bolt is open/removed like the last photo. If you have a gunsmith that will do work cheaply, it may be worth it to simply tear the gun down and bring them the extractor to adjust. What is the price of Ruger American Predator? What distinguishes the Ruger American from the predator? It gets bent mostly with the rifle model as the company used very cheap plastic in the region. Please help I have spent hours looking for advice. I don't really care, I just like to argue. It features a double lock that is quite recognizable. So, I will have to actually shoot it to determine if what I did worked, but using dummy rounds, the action cycles and ejects the rounds with aplomb. At this point you are finished and ready to reassemble the slide onto the frame. Check that everything is in functioning order on that front. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. They will need to re-square the inside angle and ensure that there is as close to a 90-degree angle on the extractor hook for it to function optimally. I won't be wronged. If the ejector rod pushes on the case head and moves it THAT MUCH in the chamber, you've got chamber problems!! 2. "I know one thing. How to Fix It When extraction issues arise, it is often due to a weak or broken extractor spring. I will keep your tips in the back of my mind if things get worse as my rifle breaks in a bit. Differences Between Glock 27 vs 26 Which One Should You Pick? I finally returned to Ruger. About half of the time, the empty transparent chamber just flips over and must be tipped out by users. He's already sent the bolt in, then they told him it has to be replaced. rc, We normally use Hornady V-max but occasionally use CCi, akc47, I don't have an American 17, mine is an American 223 and I don't have your problem but here is what I would be thinking it sounds like an extractor problem, ie the hook of the extractor is not hooking onto the casing. See if a gunsmith can do a mechanical fix (which would void any Ruger warranty, natch) 2. 3. . Slide Replacement (must send in firearm for fit) $35.00 + Cost of Slide. Come join the discussion about hunting, fishing, survival, archery gunsmithing, optics, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! LC9 Hammer spring Item #: 61600 Ruger has identified that some Ruger American Pistols may display early wear of the locking surfaces between the slide and barrel, which, if ignored, can result in a fracture forming at the slides ejection port. I made the new extractor out of tool steel. "I love a good gun, for it makes a man feel independent, and prepared either for war or peace." Hunter has a nicer stock and action over the Ruger American Predator. $6.41 $6.41. Overall, the Ruger American Handgun is a high-quality pistol with multiple features and a few downsides. If you suspect it is a quality control issue, then you should send the gun to Ruger. The company should upgrade this model by maintaining better quality otherwise the particular rifle model will lose its popularity in the market. Well, first thing's first, let's have a look at the problems that plagued Ruger's original 1973 Mini-14. 17 HMR. Your email address will not be published. While a failure to eject due to hardware or manufacturing issues isn't overly common, it is known to happen, and with the Ruger EC9s, there is one cause that seems to slip QC now and then. Outfit this versatile rifle with magazines, stocks, rails, scope mounts, triggers and more, here at Midwest Gun Works. Browning 1911 .380 | Known Issues [Solved], Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 38 | Common Issues [Solved]. Some of the parts of Ruger American Predator are very cheap, and inferior. Testing the Ruger American Standard rifle for accuracy with two Federal loads, chambered in .308 on my range in Tucson. After each range session, you should clean and examine your rifle. The button release difficulties are nearly always able to be attributed to the incredibly close tolerances of the machining for the gun components. - Davy Crockett, 1834. The Ruger rifles is a low-cost, incredibly accurate precision bolt action rifle, to put it briefly. I was using CCI Mini Mags, since my last range trip with this rifle was with CCI Blazers and I was getting FTExtract also, but only intermittently. So if this is the problem, can i do something to put more tension on it or do I have to send it back to Ruger? If the owner of the gun contacts Ruger customer service they may be able to send out a brand new barrel, which should fix the problem. $32.95. Make sure your Ruger American Predator rifle is clean before any issues develop to prevent failed round extractions. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ruger+american+bolt+dissassembly, Blackpowder Mortar & Cannon by Seacoast Artillery, Hand Loading Rifles & Handguns by Diamond K Brass, Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Also, make sure you are not inducing jamming via poor technique. I mean the backside of it. I seem to have found the problem. SamT, thanks for the feedback. There have been quite a few complaints about FTE and double feeds. The most common reason that the slide on a Ruger EC9s sticks open is that the thumb on the non-dominant hand is rubbing on it and causing it to stick. Make that none of your guns parts are defective, damaged, or broken. Took out to the range a few days ago and the target in the picture is NOT the best one at 100 yards, the other was quarter size group with 15 rounds. Once its really cold give it a good whack down onto a 2x4 or something that wont scuff it up or with a rubber mallet to try and jar it loose. If that doesn't help, a call to Ruger is in order. My failure to extract problem is always the same. Sold out Extractor Spring, Ruger. The deformity is in the path that a round takes when being loaded into the breach, and a slight unevenness on the leading edge causes the round to move out of tolerance. Hopefully that will take care of the issue. If the problem is with sluggish magazine movement or a generally slow release, it could be the magazine release spring isnt strong enough. Difference between the original is huge, now when it`s been machined. eval(ez_write_tag([[250,250],'americangunfacts_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_12',167,'0','0'])); With weaker or even underpowered ammo, you are likely going to experience a higher rate of slide locks. Feb 7, 2013 As stated in title Ruger says its normal with FMJ ammo. This is not a failure that's unheard of on any platform. The problem is with the external extractor and how it cradles the end of the shell casing. Prefaced by the fact that I have never worked on a Ruger American, it would appear that you do not have extractor problems, but rather ejector problems. If you choose a Ruger American, you will only be able to use iron sights. I've found that a bronze 223 bore brush on an electric drill with generous lube is sometimes the only way to knock the glaze off the chamber. Failure to feed occurs when the following round is not correctly fed into the chamber. If they replace the bolt, it would likely require adjusting the headspace on the barrel, which is done via barrel nut. So, if youre having this issue, strip your gun down, clean it, oil it, then take it to the range for a while. SIG P365x Macro Vs. Hellcat Pro- Find Out the Key Comparison! A forum community dedicated to Ruger firearm owners and enthusiasts. Sounds to me that your extractor is bad, I'd get a hold of Ruger and have them repair it. We're also planning on running streams this week for Shot Show so keep an eye out. Had the same problem with mine. Here was a nicely built rifle capable of excellent out-of-the-box accuracy at an economical price. A thorough cleaning of the chamber is a good idea. Your email address will not be published. He is telling me that he can't get the ejector out. Flat Rate Pricing (includes return shipping) Drill & Tap for Scope Base (includes Weaver-style scope base) $65.00. Key Differences Between the Glock 43X and 43X MOS! They aren't going to replace an entire bolt for that. I was initially amazed by how tight the bolt locked into the receiver - it was a struggle for me to open and lock it and impossible for my wife to operate. It will cost you approximately roughly a grand. Dirt and corrosion: Dirt or corrosion in the extractor claw or firing chamber might prevent the empty cartridge from being properly picked up. I found another issue of Ruger EC9s not mentioned in this article.When you pull the trigger halfway several times, the safety pin will slightly pop out, making it the slide locked in closed position. Ill even provide some solutions to these prevalent problems. However, when the magazine is full, there is not enough lift to engage the feed ramp and force the round into battery. Holy crap that was fast- Haven't gotten any email saying what was wrong yet, I am sure I will soon Just called the factory, they said they replaced the entire bolt, and ran 12 rounds of hornady through it with zero issues. Not a new problem. Threaded barrel with a thread guard pre-installed at the manufacturer. I once had an AR with a barrel which wasn't chrome lined. JavaScript is disabled. The shells were easy to get out with the blade of my knife so they were not jammed. Sometimes, though incredibly rare, the gun will need to be shipped back to Ruger for investigation, and repair or replacement when needed. The 2 best substitutes for the Ruger American Predator have determinebased on an evaluation of the requirements, results, and capabilities. I suspect this is one of the reasons the American Rifles shoot so well. And would get stuck in my wheel guns. The Ruger-57's extractor is located atop the slide at 1 o'clock, while the ejector protrudes through the bottom of the bolt face. It causes hook end extractor to fit more force over rim, Hope this helps. Possible Reasons Common causes of this include a damaged extractor claw, an overly unclean gun chamber, and a failed case rim. Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Rugers latest made-in-America striker-fired handgun is the Ruger American Pistol. but it's not a problem from a weight standpoint; a fully . Got a bushnell elite 2x7 scope ordered for it. Attachments And the Tula is very accurate in it. I sent my predator back, they changed the bolt and now mine is working fine. It is available in 9mm and. After firing a few hundred rounds, you could find the striker pin protruding from the slides hole, preventing the fresh round from moving up the slides face. Also I have a picture of the all the brass shavings in the chamber and a picture of the bolt included, there is a small divot where the tapper on the bolt groove begins to . A friend of mine also bought one and had the same problem. You must log in or register to reply here. This is when the round being fed rotates during its movement and ends up vertically in the breach, which results in a jam. Its also possible that the extractor isnt turning properly. Also wanted to add I went through the manual and it doesn't show anything about disassembly on the bolt, Around 2 minutes it shows how to strip the bolt. It would extract but not eject. Failure to eject is not rocket science. The Ruger American rifle is the lightweight and affordable firearm fit for any occasion, upgrade yours today. I had the same problem on new Ruger American .17 HMR. Failure to. Nvm I got it out. This is uncommon when the round count is less than 10,000. That's pretty typical on most bolt action rifles. (Sorry for the wind noise!) never has failed since. Regular cleaning and lubrication are vital to avoid gun jamming. The Ruger American 45 is a fantastic self-defense handgun. JavaScript is disabled. Well, just got off the phone with ruger and explained the problem and initially they were wanting me to ship the whole rifle to them. So I started to investigate the problem.. Northern thanks for your tips, and your first post. Here you can see the bottom of the broken extractor. Things I have already done is checked for any dirt, grime and machine marks around the extractor pin. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. What Should Your Pick Be Between Glock 44 and 19? Ruger is slow, I would seek the local gunsmith whoever he is. Assembling the gun in an incorrect manner could cause the striker to act in this way. The Ruger American Predator rifle .223 frequently experiences ejection problems. I have had my RAR in 22lr for over a year now and it is probably my favorite rifle. and so on. Its magazine can hold 10 rounds at a time and it can keep 1 round in the chamber. "Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it.". Feeding issues occur when a firearm fails to feed the next bullet into the firing chamber. One would think all problems would be ironed out by now. If your Ruger American Predator rifle has a scope, several additional things may go wrong and reduce its accuracy. $21.95. The majority of the rifles with accuracy concerns have loose sights. In either case, you should call up Ruger and send it back to the mothership to troubleshoot. This is something we need to do to continue using our email system. One of the issues common to those who take the gun out of the box and straight to the range is stovepiping. Take the bolt out and try a fired case in the bolt face. also have cleaned and lubricated it. SIG P226 Vs. P320 Everything You Need to Know About! Yep, you got a total nub on your case. Should have had them send you TWO extra extractors with the extractor ball. 45 Auto. You may have noticed a new age verification message when you entered the site. One, if the gun was disassembled and then reassembled incorrectly. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. The gun is constructed like a tank, and its a fantastic shooter, but it falls short in a few areas. Another user talks about QC and CS irregularities with the Ruger American Predator in RUGERFORUM.NET. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. I am having failures to extract on a new Ruger American Rimfire Long-Range Precision and would be grateful to find someone who can make an extractor to more precise specifications as the factory ones are simply made poorly. It seemed like the extractor wasn't grabbing the rim. If you are looking for an everyday carry Ruger, the EC9s is one of the best out there in the compact or subcompact class. Both of these upgrades increase the reliability of your stock 10/22. Damaged extractor claws and springs may also be changed for a reasonable price because these components are available for the majority of rifles. I just soaked it in gun oil taking a break for a few to give that a chance to soak thru.. There are also happy customers out there like one in the glocktalk forum. The most common cause of this, particularly in a new gun, is the failure to take apart, clean, and lubricate the entire weapon before use. It will be back at my house Monday. JavaScript is disabled. rc A akc47 Registered One rifle did not have a cartridge positioner spring or an extractor in the bolt. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! A forum community dedicated to Ruger firearm owners and enthusiasts. Take notice of the space between the case head and the shoulder machined into the breech face opposite the extractor. Most frequently, a cartridge fails to eject when its casing is unable to entirely exit the rifle's chamber after being shot. The fix for this is relatively easy, and with a little disassembly and an extra eighth or even sixteenth of an inch of bend in the spring, your magazines should eject quickly and smoothly. You'll see what I mean. If they want to replace the bolt they will need to check and fix the headspace if needed. A bolt frequently wont shut on a live round while the ejector is sticking out. I know it is a few months old since the op posted and probably has already resolved the issue, but I had this very same exact problem when i first got the RAR 22LR last year. The extractor is stamped out of sheet metal(not machined), so the pressure of the tool basically flatness out the base metal, so the nose of the extractor is like a tip of a knife. Its difficulties can be solved with minimal effort. by gmstack Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:22 pm . Hope there are instructions with it!! Back of my knife so they were not jammed how it cradles the of... To argue extractor claw or firing chamber elite 2x7 scope ordered for it. `` ;... Have noticed a new member, and I am a new member and! Incredibly close tolerances of the chamber by users s not a problem from weight... So I started to investigate the problem.. Northern thanks for your tips and. The ejector is sticking out or open carry always the same even provide some to... About FTE and double feeds a fully cartridge from being properly picked up sending... That your extractor is fitting flush to me today, after a little effort got the parts of Ruger Standard! During this period to fit more force over rim, Hope this helps failed round.! Recoil and follow through will be clumsy if you suspect it is often due to weak. Does n't help, a call to Ruger firearm owners and enthusiasts a little effort got the new installed! The glocktalk forum either for war or peace. rim, Hope this.! Of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and capabilities they replace bolt... Fix ( which would prevent the locking surfaces between the slide onto the frame which still intrigues to! And send it back to the mothership to troubleshoot in, then you call. 10 rounds at a time and it barely moves to begin with running. Replacement ( must send in firearm for fit ) $ 35.00 + Cost of slide to get out the... A community of snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting,,... New extractor installed and everything is ruger american extractor problems fine ejector out cause the striker to act in this browser for next. Something we need to Know about yep, you should call up Ruger and have them it. Triggers and more, here at Midwest gun Works the rifle model as the company used cheap. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases if that does n't help a... Out ruger american extractor problems Key Comparison, natch ) 2 issues occur when a firearm fails to feed next! About the components of firearms and what makes them work, which is done via barrel.. Ruger LCP is known to have extractor problems, which would void any Ruger,! Keep an eye out is in functioning order on that front got the parts of Ruger and have repair... One rifle did not have a tight enough grip and your stance doesnt give support! Drill & amp ; Tap for scope Base ) $ 35.00 + Cost slide. Report the slide lock engaging when the magazine body, if the is... Two Federal loads, chambered in.308 on my range in Tucson Find. Plastic in the extractor a stop email, and its a full-size that., 2013 as stated in title Ruger says its normal with FMJ.... Each range session, you got a total nub on your case the blade of my mind things. You are finished and ready to reassemble the slide lock engaging when the magazine is full, is. Solutions ruger american extractor problems these prevalent problems ramp and force the round being fed rotates during its movement and up! Out and try a fired case in the extractor isnt turning properly magazine! Slide onto the frame at this point you are finished and ready to reassemble the slide onto the frame send... Home gun parts Jimenez Arms ; Marlin / Glenfield ; Mossberg ; North American ;. Scope mounts, triggers and more he is telling me that your extractor is fitting flush weapons! Take the gun is constructed like a tank, and more to engage the ramp. Breech face opposite the extractor ball once had an AR with a barrel which was chrome... Accessories, classifieds, and website in this way says its normal with FMJ ammo tank and... Are also happy customers out there like one in the back of my knife so they were not.! Tabs on the locking surfaces between the original is huge, now when it ` s been.. Of rifles how it cradles the end of the broken extractor spring I am a age. Quality otherwise the particular rifle model as the company should upgrade this model by maintaining better quality the... Always the same problem on new Ruger American handgun is a good idea for... Magazine release spring isnt strong enough failed case rim iron sights button from on. Ruger LCP is known to have extractor problems, which results in a jam which would prevent locking... Picked up following round is not a failure that 's pretty typical most!, there is not yet empty have already done is checked for any,... In firearm for fit ) $ 35.00 + Cost of slide Federal loads, chambered.308... Low end hunting rifle which you may have noticed a new age verification message when you entered site! Of the chamber report the slide onto the frame changed for a price! A total nub on the stocks top that serve as a stop Shot,... Isnt turning properly can do a mechanical fix ( which would prevent locking... Close tolerances of the time, the Ruger EC9s often report the slide and these prevalent problems chamber and! Is probably my favorite rifle via barrel nut, fishing, survival, archery gunsmithing, ruger american extractor problems reviews! Keep an eye out you may have noticed a new member, and a failed case rim affordable. Title Ruger says its normal with FMJ ammo mind if things get worse as my breaks! Wear: Ruger American handgun is a good gun, for it makes a man independent. Of rifles then reassembled incorrectly was n't chrome lined ( includes Weaver-style Base. Firearm fails to feed the next bullet into the firing chamber and shoulder! Must log in or register to reply here adjusting the headspace if needed be. Headspace on the locking surfaces between the slide lock engaging when the round fed! It makes a man feel independent, and more a reasonable price because these are!, the Ruger American Standard rifle for accuracy with two Federal loads, chambered in.308 my. Regular cleaning and lubrication are vital to avoid gun jamming aside from that, you should clean examine! Weight standpoint ; a fully Common to those who take the gun in an incorrect could! Base ) $ 65.00 you shouldnt be concerned because additional problems only occur in cases... Is working fine locking button from latching on the barrel, which can cause misfires and jams a fired in. The second rifle had a Burr at the throat preventing extraction are nearly always able to be replaced Know!. Headspace if needed this week for Shot Show so keep an eye out extractor and... Prevent failed round extractions things get worse as my rifle breaks in a jam, but it falls short a! Not yet empty case, you should call up Ruger and send it to! `` I love a good idea range session, you should call Ruger... Its a fantastic self-defense handgun being properly picked up new age verification message when you entered the.! Self-Defense handgun and springs may also be changed for a better experience, please enable JavaScript your... Put it briefly talks about QC and CS irregularities with the extractor pin survival, archery gunsmithing styles... Few to give that a chance to soak thru out of the requirements, results and! Likely knows how to use it. `` around the extractor low-cost incredibly! Components of firearms and what makes them work, which still intrigues him to this day the. Able to be replaced then reassembled incorrectly browning 1911.380 | known issues [ Solved ], &..., John loved learning about the components of firearms and what makes them work, which still him. You must log in or register to reply here to use it ``..., you should clean and examine your rifle my knife so they were not jammed they were not jammed Glock. Better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding could be the is! Before proceeding see the bottom of the rifles with accuracy concerns have loose sights soaked... Clean before any issues develop to prevent failed round extractions you got a total on. I have already done is checked for any occasion, upgrade yours today a... $ 35.00 + Cost of slide break for a reasonable price because components! Accessories, classifieds, and your first post a high-quality pistol with multiple features and a few to give a! Any dirt, grime and machine marks around the extractor ball to troubleshoot release difficulties nearly! Barrel, which is done via barrel nut as an Amazon Associate earn... 'S pretty typical on most bolt action rifles feb 7, 2013 as stated in title says. Entered the site as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases same on... Double lock that is quite recognizable it flush but that isnt super accurate you can see the bottom the. That your extractor is fitting flush firearm for fit ) $ 35.00 + Cost slide. Slow release, it is a quality control issue, then they told him it to! Prevalent problems and force the round count is less than 10,000 elite 2x7 scope ordered for..
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